Q: Pr. Mahdi Elmandjra, you said earlier that this war was the first actual world war... How is it so?
A: Indeed, this is the first world war because the 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 wars were in fact European and Western wars notwithstanding the Japanese participation in the last years of the 1939-1945 conflict. However, the war which broke out on January 17, 1991 is actually the first world war because its objectives are not only of an economic, political or military character, but are also of a civilizational nature.
Q: Iraq being the cradle of human civilization, what is your assessment of this civilization and of the extent of the destructions so far?
A: The history of the civilizations which thrived in the region known as Iraq today dates back to more than 6,000 years. There were the Sumerian, Babylonian and Assyrian civilizations, among others... The destructions caused by Western countries unfortunately affected Baghdad's National Museum, a bright jewel and a living memory of all human civilizations. There are also the excavations at Samarrah, Hadra and on the banks of the Tigris and the Euphrates. Several bombs are said to have been dropped there. Naturally, we do not have any further information in this respect.
Q: Since these historical remnants have been destroyed, why has UNESCO failed to seek enforcement of international conventions on the protection of cultural property?
A: It has not applied them. Yet, by virtue of the 1954 Hague Convention, UNESCO and its Director General have a special responsibility. I asked UNESCO Director General to apply Article 27 of the Convention which empowers him in agreement with UNESCO Executive Council to convene a meeting with the States concerned, especially if 20% of those countries had signed the said convention. He did not undertake any effective action except write to some Member States and publish a press release on February 7, 1991.
The only thing I note is that he managed in the above statement to mix up the problems of Iraq and Israel. As regards Israel, we must keep in mind that no other UNESCO Member State was condemned as often as Israel for violating that very same Convention. In fact, that was one of the reasons why the United States and then Great Britain withdrew from UNESCO. Federico Mayor, UNESCO Director General, uses every possible occasion to attempt to bring back the United States to UNESCO, particularly since its contribution used to account for 25% of UNESCO's budget.
Worse still, he even declared, two years ago, in Washington, that UNESCO should strive to defend Western cultural values. Today, he is trying to obtain Israel's favor to encourage this country to work for the return of the United States and Great Britain to UNESCO. This is, in fact, a tragedy of world dimension because the Paris-based UNESCO, like the Secretary General of the United Nations, is a victim of the illegitimate hegemony of powerful nations.
The current plight of Iraq does not affect Arabs and Muslims only, but also the universal memory of the human race. It is regrettable that not a single Arab minister of culture, particularly in the Arab Maghreb, undertook the slightest initiative. As far as I know, neither the Islamic Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (ISESCO) - I called personally its Director general and appealed to him to take an initiative with respect to the cultural heritage of Iraq - nor the Arab League Educational, Cultural and Scientific Organization (ALECSO) undertook any kind of action. At best, some specialists from Tunisia and Algeria wrote to the UNESCO Director General.
Despite the barbarian nature of this aggression which cannot be hushed up, Western media accorded it only scant attention in spite of strong reactions from many archaeologists and museologists in Europe. To what extent can one trust such international organizations? I think that Arab countries should approach UNESCO differently, either by collective withdrawal or by freezing working relations with UNESCO. This is the only language it will understand.
Q: What are, in your opinion, the changes which have taken place in the Arab Maghreb in the light of the New World Order?
A: There is no Arab Maghreb per se. The Arab Maghreb exists currently at mass level, in the sense that Maghreb peoples share the same feelings. We celebrated, a few days ago, the second anniversary of the Arab Maghreb Union (UMA). Last May, in a meeting with the Algerian President Chadli Ben Jedid, I clearly told him that the Arab Maghreb Union represented a dream for several generations. I stressed that the UMA, in its present form, was a mere inter-governmental bureaucracy lacking vision as it had no well-defined long term goals and prospects. Suffice it to pinpoint the absence of communication among our countries in terms of the media, the press and all other aspects pertaining to the free circulation of ideas without which the free circulation of people is incomplete.
Q: What are the changes brought about by the new world order?
A: There is no new world order. There is only an old order, that
of dominance. Coining a new terminology is not enough to circumvent imperialistic
attitudes. The same applies to other concepts, such as "co-development,"
"Euro-Arab dialogue," "Mediterranean cooperation," "francophonia"... Intellectuals
in the Maghreb must deal with these notions with circumspection and restraint
and assess them in the light of actual deeds, not words.
Q: You said once that Arab intellectuals must do more reading and expand their knowledge.
A: This is a self-evident fact. Arab intellectuals must show more dedication in their activities, research work and pursuit of knowledge in general. They must rid themselves of the inferiority complex inherited from the colonial era. This should enable them to regain confidence in themselves, their civilization and their heritage in order to shape their own perception of the future, freely and unrestrictedly.
They should, as well, free themselves of self-censorship and of the ensuing mental restrictions. In the face of the many obstacles confronting freedom and democracy, quite a large number of Arab intellectuals resort to self-censorship to protect private interests or preserve privileged relations with public offices or government services.
Intellectuals in our countries must seek, within the means available to them, to bridge the gap between peoples and their governments. Finally, intellectuals must discharge the prime role of building up and safeguarding their peoples' collective memory.
It is hard for me to understand how some of our intellectuals are still corresponding with Western heads of State or Government. They keep hoping - which is all to their credit -but they have not yet understood or do not want to understand what is taking place despite all the bombing and thousands of daily casualties. We should show at least minimum human dignity and respect for the feelings of one's fellow citizens and for the memory of the dead.
Q: Pr. Elmandjra, you have always advocated Arab technological development. What is your perception of this objective?
A: It is only obvious that there can be no future for us without development of scientific and technological research. The mistake made by our governments was that they failed to grant priority to this field. The only exception was Iraq, which is today the object of aggression and annihilation. In fact, our development model is based on imitation, assistance and corruption. Science and technology, however, cannot be bought.
It is essential to design and develop projects based on endogenous development and to provide for our peoples to be more actively involved in such projects. Modern technology mandates international cooperation on a wide scale. It is unacceptable, for instance, that Maghreb countries should engage separately in advanced technological research projects. Cooperation among Maghreb countries in the fields of science and technology requires a considerable measure of seriousness at all levels. Today we have enough scientists and researchers to initiate major regional projects in these fields.
Minimum resources must be made available to this effect. Maghrebian and Arab governments must increase research budget appropriations from the current rate of 0.3% of the GNP to 1 or 1.5%, instead of continuing to rely exclusively on cooperation with Western countries. This cooperation cannot lead to genuine development in the sense that we continue to buy goods, not work on them and improve them ourselves in our countries and plan development programmes which would meet the actual needs of our populations. These are the true challenges of the future.
Q: I have received a report on inter-Arab co-production of a film on the Gulf war. Do you think that such projects are useful?
A: Projects of this kind must be encouraged because science and technology require creativity and innovation whose fertile grounds are poetry, arts, the theater and the cinema. We must bring active support to all attempts in this field as a first step towards achieving our dream, for there can be no action without dreams or imagination which ultimately call for creativity. However, creativity requires several conditions to blossom : freedom, democracy and the establishment of a civil society.
Unfortunately, in the Third World, especially in the Arab and Maghreb worlds, the project of building this civil society is constantly thwarted; this is all the more regrettable that erecting this civil society is fundamental in the search for solutions to all our problems, including those pertaining to our relations with the West.
Our international relations will be meaningful only if we show commitment
in our relations with one another and if we can prove our ability to rely
on ourselves. I personally have confidence in South-South relations, particularly
among Arab countries, who must promote joint action in all fields of creativity
and inventiveness. There are, however, administrative and bureaucratic
attempts to foil nascent projects of this kind. Nevertheless, Maghrebian
and Arab intellectuals must be aware of their responsibilities and of the
requirements of this critical juncture, particularly that we are about
to enter a ruthless era. Should we prove incapable of taking up challenges,
we shall be faced with a problem of survival, civilizational survival,
a survival of cultural pluralism without which there can be no future for
mankind.
Interviewed by Fatima Belhaj, Algerian Radio Broadcasting System, February
18, 1991 (broadcast on February 23).
* Al-Akhbar, Algiers, 26-27 February, 1991.